Abuse Recovery

Question:

you know what a coat-holder is, Saint Astral? well look it up in the dictionary because your picture is right next to the definition. Tell me, it’s not in my dictionary… Arby

a coat-holder is someone who offers to hold people’s coats for them while they fight. in other words, one who encourages and facilitates conflict. b

Response:

(snip) This newsgroup has taught me something, how to control my temper towards cruel people. pam

Funny–it’s also taught *me* the same thing.  :-) (BTW, what happened to your sig?) IUL, —Denny Progressive Life Awareness Network (PLAN): http://www.awareness.net Male Intergenerational Relationship Support Org. (MIRSO) http://www.denny.org/mirso.html "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when adults are afraid of the light." – Plato

Response:

I had no personal ill intent intended in my post nor was it personal.  Stop projecting, will you, what you just did is what meaness & bitchiness is all about.  And up until this moment I have not personally attacked anyone nor have I called names. I have only expressed opinions on agendas that I personally don’t feel appropriate for the nature of this group.  So get over it.    Get real will you? Unbelievable!

First you tell IceAngel/geode to "get a grip", and now you’re telling Buff to "get real".  Do you ever consider that the problem may be in you, not the rest of the world? You are all too obviously new to the world of newsgroups and posting.  You seem to think you have all the answers, but in my opinion you need to calm down and try listening, really listening, before you blow a gasket ranting.  Just about every person you’ve ranted at is thoroughly opposed to child molestation.  But screaming and throwing tantrums accomplishes less than nothing. If you want to really make a difference, why not take a chill pill and listen to what is really being said before you decide we’re all sitting on our asses with glazed looks. — Home is within you.

Response:

Thanks TR, actually today I am sitting with a glazed look on my face, pretty sick all weekend.  Feeling a little rocky today, but just a trace of the headache around and stopped losing my lunch. (and dinner and breakfast and so forth) What you said here makes sense, unfortunately the newbies don’t know us and what we believe in our hearts, they only see the accusations that have been hurled around that are false.  Its not their fault,but I wish they would ask for clarification before going off the deep end. Crisis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had no personal ill intent intended in my post nor was it personal.  Stop projecting, will you, what you just did is what meaness & bitchiness is all about.  And up until this moment I have not personally attacked anyone nor have I called names. I have only expressed opinions on agendas that I personally don’t feel appropriate for the nature of this group.  So get over it.    Get real will you? Unbelievable! First you tell IceAngel/geode to "get a grip", and now you’re telling Buff to "get real".  Do you ever consider that the problem may be in you, not the rest of the world? You are all too obviously new to the world of newsgroups and posting.  You seem to think you have all the answers, but in my opinion you need to calm down and try listening, really listening, before you blow a gasket ranting.  Just about every person you’ve ranted at is thoroughly opposed to child molestation.  But screaming and throwing tantrums accomplishes less than nothing. If you want to really make a difference, why not take a chill pill and listen to what is really being said before you decide we’re all sitting on our asses with glazed looks. — Home is within you.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … a lot… Pam, could you please turn on word-wrap? It’s damn hard to read your very lengthy lines which just run off my screen on the right… I don’t know how this works with the AOL offline reader, but I’m sure they built something into that reader. Or else, just hit the enter key every once in a while Arby

I’ll second that request. Crisis

Response:

Sorry all, it shows that it is wrapping here, can you hit word wrap at your end?  I don’t have it here because it shows up here as automatically wrapped.  nothing more I can do so…… I guess aol just doesn’t translate over to your server – don’t know why??? pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … a lot… Pam, could you please turn on word-wrap? It’s damn hard to read your very lengthy lines which just run off my screen on the right… I don’t know how this works with the AOL offline reader, but I’m sure they built something into that reader. Or else, just hit the enter key every once in a while Arby I’ll second that request. Crisis Path: newsbf05.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer3 .itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news Newsgroups: alt.abuse.recovery Organization: Netcom Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: hou-tx11-19.ix.netcom.com

Response:

 Wish I could have put it as well as you did Pam. Thank you. from a raging, destroyed abusee.

i think "destructive" would be a better word for it, actually. you know what a coat-holder is, Saint Astral? well look it up in the dictionary because your picture is right next to the definition. b – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – when you make remarks publically – which you did – which include the insinuation that a survivor is furthering the "pro-ped" (hmmm…sounds like a foot-fetishest almost) agenda by supporting them – which you did – … i’d say it’s pretty silly not to expect them to take it personally. how else are they supposed to take it, i wonder? b

Buff, Hummmmmm, oh I don’t know – Maybe crisis should take your post as an attack on her too as her name is still on the thread. Again – I never used crisis’ name in my original to "Mouse" in this "thread".  You really do work hard at trying to be mean to me, could you see if you could find someone else to pick on.  You both seem to take alot personally – guilty conscious buff (no, that comment was not meant for you crisis)? It is getting harder to be civil back, buff.  Instead I’ll try to ignore you until you can stop attacking.   This newsgroup has taught me something, how to control my temper towards cruel people. pam

Response:

Crisis – was your name at the begining of my post?????

Ummmm….. look up there – see the name of the subject header.

Response:

Hi, Pam.  Thanks for your comments and feedback. I wish my dad would own his actions also.  When I was in college, long before I confronted him for abusing me, before I even remembered the abuse, he said to me, "Babies like sex."  This was out of the blue. So, when there’s talk of abolishing all AofC laws, and some think its ‘obvious’ that very young children shoulnt have sex with adults…I always think of this comment, and think no, its not obvious to everyone.   When I questioned him on it, he refused to elaborate but became very insistent that he ‘knew’ this was true. (putting some sort of ‘blame’ on the baby, btw…) mouse

Wierd! How on earth could he even begin to justify such an idea? Not really asking… rhetorical question — Terry Blunt

Response:

Hi, Pam.  Thanks for your comments and feedback. I wish my dad would own his actions also.  When I was in college, long before I confronted him for abusing me, before I even remembered the abuse, he said to me, "Babies like sex."  This was out of the blue. So, when there’s talk of abolishing all AofC laws, and some think its ‘obvious’ that very young children shoulnt have sex with adults…I always think of this comment, and think no, its not obvious to everyone.   When I questioned him on it, he refused to elaborate but became very insistent that he ‘knew’ this was true. (putting some sort of ‘blame’ on the baby, btw…) mouse – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Very much sniped but…. Crisis…I’m sorry you feel unsafe here, and I acknowledge that you attribute your lack of safety to Peter.  I feel unsafe here,too, and its *not* due to Peter.  Its due to toleration of pro-pedophile agendas, and even more, attacking people who don’t likewise tolerate it. What happened to the free speech rights of *us*? Mouse, You are a calm voice of sanity in this well spring of anger, hurt

feelings and incessant judgemental flaming of those who support others angry about the pro-pedophile agendas that take place.  I also do not see peter as a problem, but a balance, and I wish to god my own dad would have owned his disease as peter does.  Peter has been explicit at times – but incest and abuse of children is not nice – And he clearly protrays it as it is – which hopefully does shock others – it is shocking what adult pedophiles will justify with children and try to make it sound like love and all nice.  Peter just brings the reality of it out. I feel the surviors that aren’t heavily in support of Mike or Denny

and their orientation but tolerate Denny’s signature, are in fact more damaging than the signature it self.  At least that is "in your face – this is what I am".  The support is covert, damaging and sad, and why sexual abuse and incest are still so rampant.  The damage doesn’t stop with the act, does it? Thanks for you input and calm voice in this group. Pam Mean people suck – practise random kindness.

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Response:

when you make remarks publically – which you did – which include the insinuation that a survivor is furthering the "pro-ped" (hmmm…sounds like a foot-fetishest almost) agenda by supporting them – which you did – … i’d say it’s pretty silly not to expect them to take it personally. how else are they supposed to take it, i wonder? b – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: writes: Very much sniped but…. Crisis…I’m sorry you feel unsafe here, and I acknowledge that you attribute your lack of safety to Peter.  I feel unsafe here,too, and its *not* due to Peter.  Its due to toleration of pro-pedophile agendas, and even more, attacking people who don’t likewise tolerate it. What happened to the free speech rights of *us*? Mouse, You are a calm voice of sanity in this well spring of anger, hurt feelings and incessant judgemental flaming of those who support others angry about the pro-pedophile agendas that take place.  I also do not see peter as a problem, but a balance, and I wish to god my own dad would have owned his disease as peter does.  Peter has been explicit at times – but incest and abuse of children is not nice – And he clearly protrays it as it is – which hopefully does shock others – it is shocking what adult pedophiles will justify with children and try to make it sound like love and all nice.  Peter just brings the reality of it out. I feel the surviors that aren’t heavily in support of Mike or Denny and their orientation but tolerate Denny’s signature, are in fact more damaging than the signature it self. I have not once supported Mike or Denny’s orientation, merely their ability to have it, neither one of them as far as we know has ever touched a child in a harmful way, it is an an attraction. ****Gosh Crisis – Please re – read – Note that I said AREN’T IN SUPPORT OF THEIR ORIENTATION! molesting is simply isn’t a fact that has every been up for consideration. Please cite where you have read either one of them state that they molest children or hurt children or condone anyone doing that?   *****Where do I say this crisis?  What in the heck are you reading and reading into this, and why are you personalizing it????  My post was addressed to Mouse! And crisis, you may not want to believe it but they do condone sexual abuse of childern whether they explicitly state it or not.  Have you even looked at MIRSO so that you can be informed. Denny’s pictures of boys are of children that can’t be more than 12. That he isn’t sexual right now with a child doesn’t mean he hasn’t been or won’t be.  He is the director of the thing for god’s sake, and it is illegal to have sex with kids.  He is a very public person who is not anonymous and can not afford to state he is being sexual with a child right now.  And crisis, I don’t give a damn if it is consentual.  It is abusive.   To say that I am more damaging than a pedophle has reduced me to tears for the second time today.  My migraine is throbbing again.  Its like you picture me strapping on tennis shoes and climbing trees waiting for little children to come walking by so I can pounce on them and hurt them.  What ever gave you the right to depict me that way??? What have I ever done or said that would give you the idea that I would either hurt or support hurting a child, I am curious, just exactly what was it?????   Again Crisis, you are personalizing and not reading it right – I said "more damaging than THE SIGNATURE" – Not a pedophile.  At least that is "in your face – this is what I am".  The support is covert, damaging and sad, and why sexual abuse and incest are still so rampant.  The damage doesn’t stop with the act, does it? AGAIN CRISIS – This was NOT PERSONAL, but it is sad that if you are a sexual abuse survivor that you do not see what is wrong with denny signing with MIRSO in an abuse recovery group.  And every time it is tolerated it invalidates those who have survived sexual abuse at the hands of those adults who "loved" the children they molest.  Very, very few children are "forced" into sex with their abuser.  Most abusers are someone they trust.   So I am covert damaging and sad now and every time someone says something like that my mailbox fills up again.  You don’t even know me. On one hand you send me e-mail thank me for my support and on the other you post this slamming me and those who support anyones right to speak. Crisis – was your name at the begining of my post????? I do thank you for your E-mail, but get a grip!  I am not slamming you or anyone, merely expressing an opinion.  Using MY right to speak.  Everyone has a right to speak, and I can not stop  Denny or any one else from posting whatever they want.  But I will continue to be angry about and feel that it is totally inappropriate for Denny to continue his signature.  And as long as I am participating in the group, I will support other’s anger about it and see it as a pro-pedophile issue.  Denny "was" damaged severly by his abuse which is evident in his adament views as to what is and is not abuse. No one here has supported hurting children, no one.  What you post does damage and hurts with the resultant e-mail, did you ever think about that? *****It is supported everytime the MIRSO signature is tolerated. Crisis, again, I have had no intention of ever hurting you personally.  And I hope you can hear my intent in this post without becoming defensive or picking it apart without looking at the whole. Thanks for you input and calm voice in this group. Pam Mean people suck – practise random kindness. I truly wish it could be than random of late. Crisis – really hurt today Sincerely with no malice Pam

Response:

read your own damn posts again, please. when you start accusing others here (crisis in this case) of being pro-pedophilia (which *is* what you said, after all) and then turn around and end with a sig such as yours, expect to have the double standard pointed out to you. and get over *your*self. have a nice day. b – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can anyone here spell h y p o c r i t e? "practice random acts of bitchiness" seems a bit closer to the truth. and yeah, you’re right. mean people DO suck. b I had no personal ill intent intended in my post nor was it personal.  Stop projecting, will you, what you just did is what meaness & bitchiness is all about.  And up until this moment I have not personally attacked anyone nor have I called names.  I have only expressed opinions on agendas that I personally don’t feel appropriate for the nature of this group.  So get over it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very much sniped but…. <Yes very much snipped, again to send    Thank you for your post.  I agree wholeheartedly.    I am beginning to think that the newsgroup should be called    alt.support.pedophile.viewpoint

<burp    I suggest we, who don’t support degrees of pedohilia, ignore posts that do, and get on with business of alt.support.recovery.

now *there’s* a novel idea. i hope it’s actually put into practice.            Best N

b – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                THAN WE WILL BE SAD & REMEMBER"   "Compulsion: An irresistable impulse to perform an irrational act"            "Attraction: The act, process, or power to attract"

Response:

can anyone here spell h y p o c r i t e? "practice random acts of bitchiness" seems a bit closer to the truth. and yeah, you’re right. mean people DO suck. b

I had no personal ill intent intended in my post nor was it personal.  Stop projecting, will you, what you just did is what meaness & bitchiness is all about.  And up until this moment I have not personally attacked anyone nor have I called names.  I have only expressed opinions on agendas that I personally don’t feel appropriate for the nature of this group.  So get over it.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: writes: Very much sniped but…. Crisis…I’m sorry you feel unsafe here, and I acknowledge that you attribute your lack of safety to Peter.  I feel unsafe here,too, and its *not* due to Peter.  Its due to toleration of pro-pedophile agendas, and even more, attacking people who don’t likewise tolerate it. What happened to the free speech rights of *us*? Mouse, You are a calm voice of sanity in this well spring of anger, hurt feelings and incessant judgemental flaming of those who support others angry about the pro-pedophile agendas that take place.  I also do not see peter as a problem, but a balance, and I wish to god my own dad would have owned his disease as peter does.  Peter has been explicit at times – but incest and abuse of children is not nice – And he clearly protrays it as it is – which hopefully does shock others – it is shocking what adult pedophiles will justify with children and try to make it sound like love and all nice.  Peter just brings the reality of it out. I feel the surviors that aren’t heavily in support of Mike or Denny and their orientation but tolerate Denny’s signature, are in fact more damaging than the signature it self. I have not once supported Mike or Denny’s orientation, merely their ability to have it, neither one of them as far as we know has ever touched a child in a harmful way, it is an an attraction.

****Gosh Crisis – Please re – read – Note that I said AREN’T IN SUPPORT OF THEIR ORIENTATION! molesting is simply isn’t a fact that has every been up for consideration. Please cite where you have read either one of them state that they molest children or hurt children or condone anyone doing that?  

*****Where do I say this crisis?  What in the heck are you reading and reading into this, and why are you personalizing it????  My post was addressed to Mouse! And crisis, you may not want to believe it but they do condone sexual abuse of childern whether they explicitly state it or not.  Have you even looked at MIRSO so that you can be informed. Denny’s pictures of boys are of children that can’t be more than 12. That he isn’t sexual right now with a child doesn’t mean he hasn’t been or won’t be.  He is the director of the thing for god’s sake, and it is illegal to have sex with kids.  He is a very public person who is not anonymous and can not afford to state he is being sexual with a child right now.  And crisis, I don’t give a damn if it is consentual.  It is abusive.   To say that I am more damaging than a pedophle has reduced me to tears for the second time today.  My migraine is throbbing again.  Its like you picture me strapping on tennis shoes and climbing trees waiting for little children to come walking by so I can pounce on them and hurt them.  What ever gave you the right to depict me that way??? What have I ever done or said that would give you the idea that I would either hurt or support hurting a child, I am curious, just exactly what was it?????  

Again Crisis, you are personalizing and not reading it right – I said "more damaging than THE SIGNATURE" – Not a pedophile.  At least that is "in your face – this is what I am".  The support is covert, damaging and sad, and why sexual abuse and incest are still so rampant.  The damage doesn’t stop with the act, does it?

AGAIN CRISIS – This was NOT PERSONAL, but it is sad that if you are a sexual abuse survivor that you do not see what is wrong with denny signing with MIRSO in an abuse recovery group.  And every time it is tolerated it invalidates those who have survived sexual abuse at the hands of those adults who "loved" the children they molest.  Very, very few children are "forced" into sex with their abuser.  Most abusers are someone they trust.   So I am covert damaging and sad now and every time someone says something like that my mailbox fills up again.  You don’t even know me. On one hand you send me e-mail thank me for my support and on the other you post this slamming me and those who support anyones right to speak.

Crisis – was your name at the begining of my post????? I do thank you for your E-mail, but get a grip!  I am not slamming you or anyone, merely expressing an opinion.  Using MY right to speak.  Everyone has a right to speak, and I can not stop  Denny or any one else from posting whatever they want.  But I will continue to be angry about and feel that it is totally inappropriate for Denny to continue his signature.  And as long as I am participating in the group, I will support other’s anger about it and see it as a pro-pedophile issue.  Denny "was" damaged severly by his abuse which is evident in his adament views as to what is and is not abuse. No one here has supported hurting children, no one.  What you post does damage and hurts with the resultant e-mail, did you ever think about that?

*****It is supported everytime the MIRSO signature is tolerated. Crisis, again, I have had no intention of ever hurting you personally.  And I hope you can hear my intent in this post without becoming defensive or picking it apart without looking at the whole. Thanks for you input and calm voice in this group. Pam Mean people suck – practise random kindness. I truly wish it could be than random of late. Crisis – really hurt today

Sincerely with no malice Pam

Response:

Very much sniped but….

<Yes very much snipped, again to send         Thank you for your post.  I agree wholeheartedly.         I am beginning to think that the newsgroup should be called         alt.support.pedophile.viewpoint         I suggest we, who don’t support degrees of pedohilia, ignore posts that do, and get on with business of alt.support.recovery.                 Best N                     THAN WE WILL BE SAD & REMEMBER"   "Compulsion: An irresistable impulse to perform an irrational act"            "Attraction: The act, process, or power to attract"

Response:

Very much sniped but….

 <Yes very much snipped, again to send          Thank you for your post.  I agree wholeheartedly.          I am beginning to think that the newsgroup should be called          alt.support.pedophile.viewpoint          I suggest we, who don’t support degrees of pedohilia, ignore  posts that do, and get on with business of alt.support.recovery.                  Best N          "ATTRACTION IS NOT ACTION.  UNTIL THE ACT OCCURS                      THAN WE WILL BE SAD & REMEMBER"    "Compulsion: An irresistable impulse to perform an irrational act"             "Attraction: The act, process, or power to attract"

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Very much sniped but…. Crisis…I’m sorry you feel unsafe here, and I acknowledge that you attribute your lack of safety to Peter.  I feel unsafe here,too, and its *not* due to Peter.  Its due to toleration of pro-pedophile agendas, and even more, attacking people who don’t likewise tolerate it. What happened to the free speech rights of *us*? Mouse, You are a calm voice of sanity in this well spring of anger, hurt

feelings and incessant judgemental flaming of those who support others angry about the pro-pedophile agendas that take place.  I also do not see peter as a problem, but a balance, and I wish to god my own dad would have owned his disease as peter does.  Peter has been explicit at times – but incest and abuse of children is not nice – And he clearly protrays it as it is – which hopefully does shock others – it is shocking what adult pedophiles will justify with children and try to make it sound like love and all nice.  Peter just brings the reality of it out. I feel the surviors that aren’t heavily in support of Mike or Denny

and their orientation but tolerate Denny’s signature, are in fact more damaging than the signature it self. I have not once supported Mike or Denny’s orientation, merely their ability to have it, neither one of them as far as we know has ever touched a child in a harmful way, it is an an attraction.  Actual molesting is simply isn’t a fact that has every been up for consideration. Please cite where you have read either one of them state that they molest children or hurt children or condone anyone doing that?   To say that I am more damaging than a pedophle has reduced me to tears for the second time today.  My migraine is throbbing again.  Its like you picture me strapping on tennis shoes and climbing trees waiting for little children to come walking by so I can pounce on them and hurt them.  What ever gave you the right to depict me that way??? What have I ever done or said that would give you the idea that I would either hurt or support hurting a child, I am curious, just exactly what was it?????     At least that is "in your face – this is what I am".  The support is covert, damaging and sad, and why sexual abuse and incest are still so rampant.  The damage doesn’t stop with the act, does it? So I am covert damaging and sad now and every time someone says something like that my mailbox fills up again.  You don’t even know me. On one hand you send me e-mail thank me for my support and on the other you post this slamming me and those who support anyones right to speak. No one here has supported hurting children, no one.  What you post does damage and hurts with the resultant e-mail, did you ever think about that? Thanks for you input and calm voice in this group. Pam Mean people suck – practise random kindness.

I truly wish it could be than random of late. Crisis – really hurt today

Response:

Very much sniped but…. Crisis…I’m sorry you feel unsafe here, and I acknowledge that you attribute your lack of safety to Peter.  I feel unsafe here,too, and its *not* due to Peter.  Its due to toleration of pro-pedophile agendas, and even more, attacking people who don’t likewise tolerate it. What happened to the free speech rights of *us*?

Mouse, You are a calm voice of sanity in this well spring of anger, hurt feelings and incessant judgemental flaming of those who support others angry about the pro-pedophile agendas that take place.  I also do not see peter as a problem, but a balance, and I wish to god my own dad would have owned his disease as peter does.  Peter has been explicit at times – but incest and abuse of children is not nice – And he clearly protrays it as it is – which hopefully does shock others – it is shocking what adult pedophiles will justify with children and try to make it sound like love and all nice.  Peter just brings the reality of it out. I feel the surviors that aren’t heavily in support of Mike or Denny and their orientation but tolerate Denny’s signature, are in fact more damaging than the signature it self.  At least that is "in your face – this is what I am".  The support is covert, damaging and sad, and why sexual abuse and incest are still so rampant.  The damage doesn’t stop with the act, does it? Thanks for you input and calm voice in this group. Pam Mean people suck – practise random kindness.

Response:

can anyone here spell h y p o c r i t e? "practice random acts of bitchiness" seems a bit closer to the truth. and yeah, you’re right. mean people DO suck. b – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very much sniped but…. Crisis…I’m sorry you feel unsafe here, and I acknowledge that you attribute your lack of safety to Peter.  I feel unsafe here,too, and its *not* due to Peter.  Its due to toleration of pro-pedophile agendas, and even more, attacking people who don’t likewise tolerate it. What happened to the free speech rights of *us*? Mouse, You are a calm voice of sanity in this well spring of anger, hurt feelings and incessant judgemental flaming of those who support others angry about the pro-pedophile agendas that take place.  I also do not see peter as a problem, but a balance, and I wish to god my own dad would have owned his disease as peter does.  Peter has been explicit at times – but incest and abuse of children is not nice – And he clearly protrays it as it is – which hopefully does shock others – it is shocking what adult pedophiles will justify with children and try to make it sound like love and all nice.  Peter just brings the reality of it out. I feel the surviors that aren’t heavily in support of Mike or Denny and their orientation but tolerate Denny’s signature, are in fact more damaging than the signature it self.  At least that is "in your face – this is what I am".  The support is covert, damaging and sad, and why sexual abuse and incest are still so rampant.  The damage doesn’t stop with the act, does it? Thanks for you input and calm voice in this group. Pam Mean people suck – practise random kindness.

Response:

With all this talk of tolerance, I really don’t feel that some of us are tolerated at all, for stating our boundaries, or for condemning pedophilia.  The irony to me is that this is happening in a ‘recovery’ group. I really dont’ expect much if any support for this post…but I’m tired of keeping quiet.  I really do think that some of the flames are meant to shut up those who don’t go along…esp those who don’t indulge in flames themselves…they’re more likely to be viewed as ‘easy marks.’ mouse

In the time I’ve been reading this NG you’ve said a lot ot things I agree with and a lot I don’t agree with. Whatever, I almost always read your posts to the end – many others I just skim a line or two. I would like to continue to read what you have to say. Flamers don’t interest me, nor do they put me off – quite the reverse. If someone says ‘keep away from X they’re a *&^%$